Even More "Truther" Lies

      Recently, a friend of mine, who knows I’ve been pointing out flaws in “truther” arguments- we’ll call him Fellow Debunker 1( and, while we’re at it, a hat tip to Fellow Debunker 1 for giving me the idea for this article) ,who along with 2 other debunkers, who I will call Fellow Debunker 2 and Fellow Debunker 3 were involved in a debate with 2 new “truthers” ( new to me, that is), who I will call “ Truther” C and “Truther” D.  Anyway, Fellow debunker 1 was having trouble answering the questions, and, knowing that I’ve been involved with exposing “truther” lies, he asked me for help, so I decided to oblige Fellow Debunker 1 with this article.

     First, “Truther” C makes the usual “truther” lie that the planes disintegrated, disappear, or vaporize.  The fact is only ‘TRUTHERS” have ever made that claim.  There WAS a lot of debris at the Pentagon.

     As we see here, CNN reporter Jamie McIntyre, who “truthers” often misquote ( and deliberately so)- here are the ACTUAL quotes from the aforementioned site: “From my close-up inspection, there’s no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.
The only site, is the actual side of the building that’s crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.
Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn’t happen immediately. It wasn’t until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed, and “short — a while ago I walked right up next to the building, firefighters were still trying to put the blaze. The fire, by the way, is still burning in some parts of the Pentagon. And I took a look at the huge gaping hole that’s in the side of the Pentagon in an area of the Pentagon that has been recently renovated, part of a multibillion dollar renovation program here at the Pentagon. I could see parts of the airplane that crashed into the building, very small pieces of the plane on the heliport outside the building. The biggest piece I saw was about three feet long, it was silver and had been painted green and red, but I could not see any identifying markings on the plane. I also saw a large piece of shattered glass. It appeared to be a cockpit windshield or other window from the plane.”

            Furthermore, as has been pointed out MANY times, Flight 77 did NOT crash NEAR the Pentagon; it crashed INTO the Pentagon.

            As we see here,  there WAS debris. More photos of debris at the Pentagon can be found here and here,  and before any “truther” says it was planted, that’s not possible as the attack occurred smack in the middle of rush hour, so, unless the Starship Enterprise beamed the wreckage there, there is NO WAY IN HELL the debris was planted.

(picture from here )

Truther” C also makes the claim that they pulled out an intact 757 engine from the Pentagon, which is false.  As we see here, they found engine PARTS.

            “Truther” then proceeds to compare a B-27 with a passenger airline, which is apples to oranges. 

            For an encore, “Truther” C states that if you fire a .50 caliber round into reinforced steel objects, the round will get flattened, which is technically true.  However, the Pentagon is NOT reinforced steel- it’s reinforced CONCRETE ( source ), and the objects mass is also a factor.  I’m pretty sure a Boeing 757 is just a TAD more massive than the .50 caliber round.

            Fellow Debunker 2 chimed in and points out that there were NUMEROUS eyewitnesses on the I-395 that saw a PLANE, as well as the phone call from Barbara Olson, combined with the fact that Fellow Debunker 2 had a friend who was stationed at the Pentagon at that time- in short, Fellow Debunker 2 is, correctly, more inclined to believe people who were actually there.  He also correctly states that the “truther” explanations are needlessly complicated, and, per Occam ’s razor, the “truther” explanations are the false ones.

            “Truther” D then chimes in by saying he was there ( this isn’t quite true, but I will deal with that in a bit) and that the hole in the Pentagon looked more like a missile strike than a 747.  First of all, Flight 77 was NOT  a 747, it was a 757. Second, it is the mass and velocity of the object, NOT the shape, that determines the shape of the hole. Furthermore, as we see here, the height of the aircraft is meant for hangar clearance and that the 757 itself is a cylinder approximately 13 ft in width ( source ).

            Flight 77 hit the Pentagon at 9:37, Eastern Daylight Time ( reference ), and this site provides a timeline for Flight 77.

            As we can see, Flight 77 was hijacked and the transponder shut off just before 9 am. NORAD was not notified of the hijacking until 9:24 am, and the fighters were in the air 6 minutes later, at 9:30, which was right before Flight 77 hit.

            This quote from here  explains things quite nicely: “The plane was hijacked and transponder-less at 8:56. At 9:24, the FAA notified NORAD of Flight 77’s hijacking, and six minutes after that, the F-16s were in the air. So ultimately, there was a period of 28 minutes from Flight 77’s hijacking to the notification of NORAD that Flight 77 has been hijacked. Why such a long time, you might ask? We should probably take a look at what was happening during that time. Again, let me refer you to the 9/11 Commission Report (http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf), starting on page 24.

The controller who was tracking the flight from the Indianapolis Control Center noticed the flight turn off its transponder and begin a southwesterly course. He tried contacting the flight to no avail, and initially he thought that the flight had suffered mechanical or electrical failure and may have crashed. This controller was not aware of any of the events of the day at that point, especially the other hijackings or Flight 11’s fate. Indianapolis Center contacted the Air Force Search and Rescue at Langley Air Force Base, as well as the West Virginia State Police, asking them to look for any downed aircraft. It was not until 9:20 that Indianapolis Center learned of other hijacked aircraft and began to suspect that this wasn’t merely a plane with technical difficulties.

To add to the confusion, Flight 77 had disappeared from the radar when it began a southwesterly course and didn’t show up again in primary radar coverage until 9:05, and by that point, the flight was taking a direct course to the east. Flight controllers did not see the entire turn-around and only saw it veer to the southwest, so naturally they searched to the south and west of where the flight was when the transponder turned off. With the flight well to the east of where it was when it disappeared from the radar, it was missed by controllers searching in the wrong spot. And as I showed above, when the FAA did contact NORAD about a flight heading to Washington, they said it was Flight 11, not Flight 77.

So, to sum up what happened during those 28 minutes:

  • The controller, unaware of the morning’s events, noticed that the flight turned off its transponder and lost communication, leading him to believe that the plane had suffered some sort of electrical or mechanical failure and may have crashed.”
  • As a result, controllers spent their time contacting agencies to help them find a downed aircraft rather than contacting NORAD and telling them that the flight was headed to Washington.
  • Controllers looking for the flight lost track of it since they followed its last known direction before losing contact, without knowing that the flight had made a complete 180 degree turn and was in a different area entirely.”


Oh, and the fact that the flight controllers thought it was Flight 11 does NOT prove a conspiracy-  confusion tends to be the order of the day when disasters occur.

            As for the fighters, remember, they still have to follow a flight plan-  they have to reach a certain altitude before speeding up- and they also don’t want to collide with other aircraft.

 As for why “Truther” D is lying about his being there on 9/11, it’s quite simple, and Fellow Debunker 3 ( who, herself, knows someone who saw the plane hit the Pentagon), points it out: “Truther” D himself admitted he was  A MILE AND A HALF AWAY and drove to WITHIN HALF A MILE.  Either way, “Truther’ D was NOT there- also, within half a mile is open to interpretation. 1 mile is 5280 feet, so half a mile is 2640 ft.  If you are 2639 feet, you are within half a mile.

            Furthermore, based on his statement, “ Truther” D began heading towards the Pentagon AFTER the crash, and, considering that the crash would have snarled traffic even more than it already was, it more than likely would have taken a while to get closer to the Pentagon. He does not say when he got to the Pentagon or if he even got there.  Anyone who’s ever been stuck in really bad traffic knows that, in some circumstances (usually in the case of extremely bad accidents or major disasters- and 9/11 clearly fits that category), it can take over an hour to go 5 feet and this more than likely would have been the case on 9/11. That’s to say nothing of the looky-loos, who cause enough of a traffic jam if there’s a fender-bender. Clearly, a plane slamming into the side of the Pentagon would create considerably MORE looky-loos.

            In addition, “ Truther” D does not specify what time on 9/11 he was within the specified distance of the Pentagon. Also, whether or not he saw debris would depend on WHICH SIDE of the Pentagon he was on.

            Once again we see, when indulging in that special eggnog,”truthers” need to use less rum and more eggnog.

  (picture from here )

(picture from here )


Posted November 12, 2010 by Victor Chabala in Real 9/11 Facts

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